Tuesday, January 11, 2011

Big Picture: "All The World Is Waiting"


Ezenwa said...

Yes, the world is waiting, Bob. The day Wonder Woman gets a proper big screen or small screen release is the day that maybe, just maybe, we may have fully broken through with female protagonists of a video game or a comic book variety. She was one of the first and one of the best. I hope that day comes sooner than later.

akkuma420 said...

Damn... I love this show. :)

I personally believe that the reason why Wonder Woman hasn't gotten the movie theater treatment is because of her INCREDIBLY dated costume... I really do believe that alone has sealed her fate and nothing more.

The same could be said for others, but WW just takes the cake here.

I feel the problem is as followed... She looks incredibly out dated which keeps the movie fans away, they cant change her costume because it would be extremely heartbreaking to comic fans.
Because her costume is so outdated, the movie going audience wont even give her a second look, which is really sad.
So they can't update her because it wont be loyal to source material and will deeply infuriate fans (I assume) and they can't NOT update her because she comes off as outdated and "boring" to the movie audience.
She is doomed to sit in limbo I fear.
Just my opinion though.

Bob said...


Oh, it's the costume alright - but I don't think audiences not responding to it properly is the problem. I'd wager that Mystique has set the bar pretty high (or low, depending on your perspective) as to what the audience will "take" before laughing at blatantly-sexualized female characters in genre films.

The REAL problem with the outfit is that, more than likely, every "bankable" actress they could plausibly approach passing on it because they KNOW the ridiculous amount of work it'll be to get into and maintain the physique for it. Then again, Warners is REALLY intent on this CGI-costume technology, so maybe it won't matter as much in the near-future. Hell, they're already talking about making Superman ENTIRELY out of CGI and only casting for Clark Kent...

akkuma420 said...

That's actually a good point, never thought of it that way... there would be quite a bit of work involved and if an actress cant use a body double every 2 seconds, its not worth the effort.
At first I thought It may have just been the story alone. Amazon women and what not, but then I quickly remembered "Thor" is coming out soon... cant be the story... haha.
I really don't think many people even know WW origins anyhow...
I personally feel that it's just the combination of all of the above that will ensure she never gets the respect she deserves.

CG Superman... ugghhh... you have got to be kidding me.
There is no need for that... combining real life actors and CG has worked in the past just fine, why reinvent the wheel?
That was the one thing I disliked about the GL preview, and now there gonna expand on that idea...
Well Bob, good job, you just ruined my day... not really, just pretty disappointing.

Q said...

You're all wrong!

(sorry for the harsh statement)

The fact of the matter is that Wonder Woman will probably not have her own movie anytime soon because the state of gender politics right are so hectic and confusing that it'll frighten off anyone with a large amount of money from bothering.

I mean think about it. How would one begin adapting Wonder Woman? Would you make her a hard-nosed feminist whose independence and radical ideas might actually frighten away audiences even today*. Or do you make her a more subdued figure, whose feminist roots only go as far as say Sarah Pailin or Hillary Clinton. Or do you just say 'fuck it' and make her just another random action girl.

Similar questions like these kept Captain America from getting an adaptation til now and Marvel only just became comfortable with doing it when Obama got the Peace prize signaling that American jingoism might sell overseas again (we'll see how that turns out). And such a thing has to happen before WW could be used. Now it doesn't have to be some grand occasion it just has to be a comic that so completely defines the character similar to what Alan Moore's "The Killing Joke" did for Batman.

Is there a comic like that out there?

*(Note: This came as a bit of a shock to me but, last year I was in an English class where we read Chopin's "The Awakening". The novel was dreadfully poorly received in the class that was mostly composed of women who found the main character's plight annoying. There seems to be very little feminist sympathy in my generation.)

Jwillx70 said...

Been waiting for this one Bob. Very well done.

So, do you prefer Marston's or George Perez's version of her origin?

Also, what was your opininon of the Animated movie Timm & Co. made a couple of years ago?

Perhps Captian America will be so sucessful that Warner's will just do a strait up knock off with Wonder Woman. Hopefuly one that is half way decent.

REPTILE 0009 said...

I don't know about the idea about women being superior. I think that everyone should be equal in terms of rights. Feminists who go around saying how much better women are than men, are certainly not making women look any better. What are your thought on this?

Q said...


No... not exactly, the fact that Wonder Woman's most popular characterization has always been with the Justice League in some capacity will probably result in the film either be a bland stripped down version of one of the WW heavy episode or a Richard Donner rip-off, seeing as the mainstream perceptive of WW is just a female Superman and just as boring.

I do write lot of run-ons, don't I?

Jwillx70 said...



You have a point there. I'm just desperate for a return to the WW2 origin. It always seemed cooler to me.

dkh said...

Bob, keep in mind there's more to it than that. Thing is that the mainstream doesn't have a real concept of Wonder Woman. I mean, she's... you know, strong? And she flies? Or, wait, she has an invisible plane, so maybe she doesn't fly? And there's a lasso, so maybe she's a cowgirl or something?

I read some comics, I know a little about nerd culture, and I actually knew about Wonder Woman's origin in feminist theory (it's also why hers is one of the longest running DC comics, because they can't risk losing the rights to her).

You make great points but you sometimes forget to step back and realize that the mainstream needs a reason to care about something relatively niche. Take Transformers for instance - you're absolutely right in saying that just because it's about alien robots that turn into cars and based on a cartoon series is no excuse to not have a good story. But the greater world just sees a series made to sell toys, made to appeal to the most basic desires - something has to happen to get these people to care about a better story. It's not like there was a rival giant robot action flick that came out the same weekend that was actually really damn smart. In that same sense something needs to happen to make us care about Wonder Woman.

As I said, I know a little about comics and I'm certainly nerdy, but I honest-to-God can't name ONE Wonder Woman villain. I don't actually even know what category of villains she fights. X-Men gots mutants, Cap gots Nazis, Iron Man gots Communists and rival rich guys, Batman gots psychos, Superman gots the biggest of the big, what about Wonder Woman? And why is she super powered? I mean, where does that come from? And she comes from an island paradise of women? I mean, do they live forever? Do they bring in studs?

I'm not trying to be coy. I'm not even really asking for answers. I'm saying that because of these roadblocks, even I have no way of really approaching Wonder Woman. Makes me wonder how the mainstream can.

Bob said...


I prefer Marston's story and concept, but the design and "tone" post-Perez were a lot better.


"I honest-to-God can't name ONE Wonder Woman villain. I don't actually even know what category of villains she fights."

Specific villains, not many. But name something from Greek Mythology and she's probably punched it.

"And why is she super powered? I mean, where does that come from?"

Essentially-immortal warrior culture with (literally) all the time in the world to hone physique and skill. The more extreme abilities come from the magic weaponry.

"And she comes from an island paradise of women? I mean, do they live forever? Do they bring in studs?"

Immortal. No men allowed, most of population gently implied to be either reflextively-lesbian or sexually-disinterested. "Procreation" by asking patron goddess to bring infants made of clay to life.

KevinCV said...

Thanks for the insight into Wonder Woman, Bob. For years, I could never get a handle -so to speak- on who she was, and why she was a super-heroine, despite being an avid comic book fan. Maybe I was too focused on the male heroes, I guess.

On an unrelated topic, this is something I've been meaning to ask you as a fellow Sherlock Holmes fan. Have you seen the BBC show "Sherlock" yet? It's a present day take on the old Sherlock Holmes stories, and it's written by "Doctor Who" writers Steven Moffat and Mark Gatiss. I think it's really brilliant, and I think you'd really enjoy it. It might just shake you out of your belief that the only good take on Sherlock Holmes that's good nowadays is Dr. Gregory House.

Joe said...


How many movie-goers could name an Iron Man villain before 2008? They probably still can't--other than Mandarin (who hasn't shown up in the films yet), Stark's foes are an interchangeably bland roster of business rivals, corporate spies and angry guys in power armour. Hell, how movie-goers could name Iron Man before the first film came out? WW has far more brand recognition than Iron Man, that has to be a point in her favour.

The problem is, even DC can't get a handle on her character.

But maybe this summer will be the litmus test. Diana's most memorable foes were i) Nazis and ii) ancient pagan gods. Well, this summer we'll see one superhero fight Nazis, and another one fight ancient pagan gods. If they do well, it hopefully opens a few more doors.

REPTILE 0009 said...

Your show began with you unjustly proclaiming Halo to be responsible for all the ills of videogames. Why do you feel that way about Halo? It never did anything to you. It never did anything wrong. If you ask me alot of the worst trends of gaming come from Nintendo. Like:
-Overemphasis on singleplayer over multiplayer
-Constant lack of attention to story
-Overuse of the same few story-lines
-Overemphasis on kiddie graphics
-Overemphasis on nostalgia and gimmicks
-Generally not bothering to push the limits of the Wii
And they're responsible for creating that underpowered, gimmicky freak of nature Wii.
Please tell me how FPS's are worse than Nintendo

Daniel said...

Why must every nearly every comment section in this blog always try to deviate from the topic at hand and lead to a discussion on Halo, Nintendo, Other M, the FPS genre, or Bob's feelings about them?

Back on topic; Really, I think a Wonder Woman film is attainable but perhaps not now. If the Avengers manages to be a big success than the public's thirst for Superhero-centric media will skyrocket, at which point every hero will have a film in the works, including WW.

dkh said...


in a nutshell I'm using myself as a marker. I know a fair amount about comics, but I tend not to read something unless it's pushed towards me. I tend to not actively follow storylines or news, and so I think it's fair to say I'm closer to a mainstream audience than, say, Bob. My point isn't that one's bad and the other's not, it's that there's little way for the two to connect. On an issue like Wonder Woman, what is the mainstream supposed to attach to?

You're right in that Wonder Woman is more recognizable than Iron Man (as of a few years ago, anyway), but as a brand, not conceptually. Iron Man is straight-forward and appeals to an American sensibility - rich American inventor makes a robot suit and fights bad guys. The Iron Man logo may not be terribly recognizable, but the concept is.

Conversely, Wonder Woman is more recognizable as a character, costume, and logo, but as a concept? As I pointed out, where she comes from is automatically confusing. She comes from an island off the coast of Greece or something and yet she wears, more or less, an American flag as a costume. The one sentence description Bob offered me about where her powers come from gives more questions than answers, such as why are they immortal, if they're really that damn strong why don't they yadda dadda dadda and so on and so forth. What's the hook? What's the tag line? What's the point?

This is not knocking her as a character, this is saying "What's the key that'll get the mainstream caring?"

REPTILE 0009 said...

I dunno, I try to put my comments were Bob is most likely to see them.

Popcorn Dave said...

Bob: "I'd wager that Mystique has set the bar pretty high (or low, depending on your perspective) as to what the audience will "take" before laughing at blatantly-sexualized female characters in genre films."

Yeah, but Mystique looked alien and otherworldy as well as sexy. Wonder Woman just looks like she forgot to get dressed before leaving the house. It's pretty hard to look intimidating dressed like that, no matter how many mooks she beats up.

You're probably right that the actress keeping her figure might also be a problem, especially as EVERY genre movie needs multiple sequels these days. But I think the costume would still need some redesigning, unless they want to go for full-on Technicolor retro-camp, Flash Gordon style.

Personally I think they'd be better off making a film based on Kate Beaton's take on the character .

vlademir1 said...

As a Daria fandom regular as well as a regular follower of yours I always get that giddy little half second giggle when you mention the character. That said, her "damn" would probably be followed by a severe hard nosed critique of the character as concept the likes of you or I would be disheartened by... which would still be much weaker than the modern feminist outlook on the character (which usually ain't pretty... well in the rare case of WW being on most modern feminists' radars at all).

Dave Kraft said...

Nonononononononononononono WROOOONG!!!!!!

Bob, I'm seriously offended that you can't even get your source material straight.

First of all, Wondy's original run wasn't published by DC Comics, but was on one of the publishers bought by National Comics, which later took the name of its subsidiary Detective Comics (or "DC" Comics).

The Marston run on the book didn't cover the Hercules story, either. That was the Post-Crisis origin in the '80s, drawn by George Perez. Marston died in '47.

None of the rest of your assessment with regard to the USA vs. the Nazis and the Amazons has anything to do with the actual comics.

So yeah, you were making it up.

For all your attempting to sound like an intellectual, the fact that you spout this bullshit nonsense is nothing short of intellectually offensive. This is not the first time you have done this with regard to a DC property.

I guess if it ain't Marvel it ain't worth getting the facts right, eh?

As for everyone else......

Check this out. This'll hopefully enlighten you a bit more on the problems that the character is currently facing:


As far as the new costume goes, if you actually bothered to read the damn book you'd realize how your assessment of her is entirely inaccurate. JMS actually made her younger (she's about 23 years old now, if you do the math in issue #600), officially younger than Donna Troy. Your comment makes her seem old, or like she's the same age as she always was, just with a new costume.

That tells me you didn't read the book at all, and are making up things without knowing what you are talking about.

This needs to stop. I can't respect the spreading of misinformation.

IMHO, it's the best costume Donna Troy never wore, and if they had just given it to her (as she's now taken Diana's place in the JLA) nobody would be bitching about it.

Dave Kraft said...

Also, Wondy's title actually did get weirder as time went on, moreso than other characters. This is due to constant retcons turning her entire timeline into a huge time vortex with loads of internal inconsistencies and contradictions which are all somehow part of the same continuity. It's one of the things preventing her from being marketable as a character, in addition to the lack of great Wonder Woman stories.