Tuesday, March 01, 2011

Big Picture: "Groan Saga"

18 comments:

TheDVDGrouch said...

That certainly answered a lot of questions I had about the Clone Saga. I also couldn't help but notice you mentioned The Punisher. I've been working on my own history of The Punisher series and I would love to here your take on the character or why Hollywood has such a hard time making a great movie about him.

Mark said...

oh my, THIS is why I stick to the movies.....

i can't help but cringe about the amount of time you spent throughout the years in order to get that 5 minutes summary.

Ah, the 90s, indeed.

KingOfDoma said...

Okay, I need to know if I'm alone in this...

... am I the only one who LIKES the Scarlet Spider costume design?

john said...

And they wonder why us non-comic book fans find the whole scene completely impenetrable...

Bob said...

@DVDGrouch,

They DID make a great movie out of the Punisher in "Warzone." Nobody bothered to see it.

Punisher is a hard nut to crack because he's only unique and interesting in the context of comics, i.e. "what if a Charles Bronson-style movie character was running around just straight-up murdering bad guys in our wacky costumed-caper universe?" Take him out of that and you've just got yet another movie about a taciturn hardcase shooting people.

To my mind, this is why "Warzone" was the only good one: Because it recreated the late-80s "Marvel Universe" version of New York (sans superhero cameos, of course) with the oversaturated palette and over the top action/gore and the nicknamed freakshow mobsters and let The Punisher inhabit it.

Adam said...

@KingOfDoma Yeah probably.

I used to read comics a lot, but haven't very much for a number of years. When I was reading comics oddly enough was in the 90's when grim and hardcore was the rule of the day. I pretty much only read the X-Men at the time and while there were many good stories the themes were a downer as none of the characters ever allowed to smile for any reason.

The Dude said...

YES! I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO LIKES SPIDER-GIRL!
Bob, or anyone else who cares, do you think that it would have been better if instead of doing the reboot they just went ahead and made a Spider-Girl movie?

I think it would have worked because it accomplishes what this reboot is trying to do (start fresh and put Peter in high school to reach the twilight crowd) without disregarding the previous movies (at least not completely). Also, the obvious way to end the movie would be to have Spider-Girl and Spider-Man have a tag team battle against the big bads of that movie. how awesome would that be? Oh we can dream.

TheDVDGrouch said...

@Bob

Thanks a lot Bob that makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. And for the record I did see Punisher Warzone and I really enjoyed it(I like it more each time I see it). The only thing that dragged the movie down for me was the whole FBI widow side plot thing.Besides that it was almost perfect. I really wished that the series had continued with Warzone instead of going with yet another reboot.

Psyckid008 said...

Ah the 90s. You were so much better than the 80s. Like, by far.

Seriously, fuck that overrated decade. The 80s was an embarrassing wasteland of bad music, bad fashion and a HORRIBLE president who fucked us in the ass so hard, our nation's asshole is still bleeding.

Smpoza said...

@psyckid008

Not having been around at the time, I can't really blanket judge the 80s (although I am not a big fan of Reagan/voodoo economics/Iran-Contra/etcetera) but the thing to keep in mind about observing the past is that we see a filter: only the really, really good stuff and really, really bad stuff will be remembered. For example, the NES, as one of the first major video game consoles, had some of the most groundbreaking titles in the industry's history. However, nobody dwells too much on the mountains and mountains of utter shit that tainted the system-because nobody remembers them. This will happen to us, too-people will be talking about the 360 and remembering Bioshock and Arkham Asylum, not Mindjack.

Bryce said...

Ben Reilly was awesome, you guys are lame.

jimmyyoung4387 said...

well glad I didn't start reading comics until I was 19 years old in 2005. And hey at least all the television shows were good in the nineties unlike the eighties with those endless toy line shove ins.

Novice said...

Smpoza, with his "Not having been around at the time, I can't really blanket judge the 80s" just made me feel so damn old.

Seriously, Bob, I have been wondering about this thing for a while. Thanks for addressing it. It kind of makes me wish that Marvel had just done the easy thing and said "Oh HO! It was all a dream!".

Ezenwa said...

Ah, the Clone Saga. A saga I don't even want to touch that with a 10 foot pole.

tyra menendez said...

The 90's was no better or worse than the 80's. Some bad comics, but also the first commercially successful creator-owned company which put a dent in the strangle hold of the big two companies. While most of the founders of Image made shitty but pretty books and have hence sold out (Jim Lee literally sold out, selling his properties to DC),or faded into obscurity, it did open the doors to the Legend imprint (now defunct) of Dark Horse, which first published Sin City and Hellboy (in the 90's).
Image also introduced the now-standard of digital coloring and printing that could recreate colors more reliably and cheap, especially since the computer does the color separations for you, without the tedious notes or boring flat colors.
The 90's also started the idea that comics could be profitable options for movie productions. The Rocketeer was a Disney movie but it was originally a creator-owned passion work of Dave Stevens (Google him).
And this is just off the top of my head as it relates to comics. If I were to go into movies, music, television, and the popularization of the internet, I could really show that the 90's sucked no more than the 80's. Oh yeah, there was also MST, in the 90's.
So, yeah, there was a bubble that spurred greed in every company, but it wasn't the first bubble to hit a market and it wasn't and won't be the last. And least we forget the law: 90% of everything is crap.

CrunchyEmpanada said...

I was about to get annoyed. I thought you were going to say Spider-Girl was a bad consequence of that Clone Saga nonsense. But you surprised me.

Spider-Girl is in fact my favourite super hero, and the Spider-Girl comics are pretty much the most awesome things ever. I would have been bothered if you had said they were bad.

Reverend Allan Ironside said...

Man, I'm so alone in liking the Tom Jane Punisher

Moshi said...

Something something comics something something convuluted bullshit continuity something something bladi bla

This is relevant how?