Tuesday, August 09, 2011

Big Picture: "Super Single"


Blue Highwind said...

So Superman can now finally marry Batman like we've all dreamed, right?

lemonvampire said...

Somehow, he seems sillier to me without the red briefs. Now he's just wearing a belt for no reason over his blue pajamas. The red underwear broke up the consistent color of the blue tights and complimented the cape. I would be okay without them, as long as there were some kind of red pattern or something added into their place. Also, has anyone noticed how they all still have the lines of their missing underwear drawn in? It kinda makes them look like big action figures with lines for their hip articulation.

motyr said...

The DC Reboot has me puzzled. I really enjoy the DC characters, but I've never been able to get into the comics because I've been intimidated by the complex continuity. Marvel comics always seemed much easier, just start at issue 1 and work your way through, but with DC, no matter where I started, there seemed to be so much backstory, I could never fully grasp any given character. Also, in general, DC's cornerstone characters (Superman, Batman) are older than a lot of the Marvel characters (Spider-Man) and, as such, came with the challenge of having more material to cope with.

So, naturally, the Reboot has me excited. As far as I'm aware, not every character will have a brand-new origin story, but the Reboot will serve as a nice place to start off from. I like this. I'm probably going to subscribe to Batman, which would be the first time I've subscribed to a comic book in my life.

What has me worried is that, like you said, this won't be for real, and DC will have a huge Crisis event and bring everything back to how it was before the Reboot. That would be horribly alienating to new readers, but it totally seems like a possibility.

Robert Garlen said...

Whats wrong with the classic suit? Also I have to say that they should at least date. I mean c'mon the two obviously belong together and them dating works well for drama. If they partner Superman up with Wonder Woman then they might as well have Superman completely give up being Clark Kent all together. Personally I'd rather see Batman date Wonder Woman as it was hinted in the JL(U) cartoons. Sure fine for a while play Superman as single but eventually he'll need to go out with Lois. Plus Wonder Woman might be attracted to Superman, but her sense of Women are All Powerful would never mesh with the Kansas farm boy that Moviebob mentioned. Let Wonder Woman Date Batman and for the hell of it, let's see Hal Jordan date Katma Tui as an Ultimate F%#@ YOU to Sinestro.

Goku50k said...
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Goku50k said...


I heard the new Superman comics are being primarily written by Grant Morrison, is this true? and if thats true do you know if Morrison will continue to write Batman comics as well?

Anonymous said...

I just can't care about Superman.

Joshua the Anarchist said...

Granted, the idea of Superman having time for marriage didn't make much sense. You know what else didn't make sense? Him having time to be a successful journalist!! Him never being fired for constant absences, ESPECIALLY during those times he'd disappear into space for months at a time!! The notion of most superheroes maintaining a normal life and still saving to world on a weekly basis is already unrealistic, and THIS is where we're gonna draw the line?

The reasons I loved them being married are twofold: 1) their stupid cat 'n mouse games were over. No more of her scheming to uncover his secret ID and/or get him to marry her and Supes's constant foiling of her efforts. Yeah, it could be cute at times and the wackiness of it was dialed down after the Silver Age, but there comes a time when they either have to move to the next level or end this thing. Going back to square one is beyond pointless and frustrating. And 2) the fact that being the spouse of Superman WAS so stressful actually makes their relationship more meaningful & engaging. The fact that she was ultimately willing to put up with such hardship made it feel like the great love of our time, like Lois truly was the only woman on Earth with the strength of character & indomitable will to be the bride of the world's greatest superhero. It was great watching her come to terms with the fact that she did have to share him with the world.

Besides which, how does them being married make that much of a difference in the end? Lois and Superman were already very close, more or less dating, before he ever told her his secret. So how is the mere fact that their married now make her fear for his life any less? The only real difference now is that they've stopped bullshiting each other and finally committed to this thing.

The bottom line is, the will-they-won't-they relationship they had is old. I was sick of it, glad to see it go, and am in no mood to see it return.

Silens said...

Look, Bob, I understand where you're coming from on Superman - frankly, your POV comes as absolutely no surprise on this issue - but here, I think you're wrong, for two main reasons.

Firstly, let's look to 52. If I remember correctly, after Infinite Crisis, Superman lost his powers for an entire year and thus had to live as Clark - and only Clark. Canonically, that meant he was living with Lois for that year, and he was doing just fine. To consider your military example, it would be as if Clark had leave for an entire year, to recuperate and continue a normal life. Sure, it might not have been perfect and not entirely shown, but it's still relevant.

And that leads me to my second point, where I really have to stand behind Linkara here: Superman, as a character, has grown and evolved over the decades, and the marriage to Lois, while being a publicity stunt, is still an essential arc for his character - it's growth, it's maturity, and for a Kansas-raised Kryptonian, it makes perfect sense. Thus, with this 'reset', it feels like a step backwards in Superman's life. Unless Superman somehow separated from Lois after Flashpoint (which I really, really doubt will happen), this retcon just feels cheap. We aren't talking about a relationship that didn't work, like Oliver and Dinah's - there aren't those sorts of problems with Superman's life, Bob.

Now if DC had chosen for Clark and Lois to break up, it could be rationalized as a progression from 'Superman: Grounded' (yes, I have a ton of problems with that book, but if Superman chose to consider his relationship with Lois as a result of that story, I could understand it better than this). That... well, I wouldn't like it, but I could understand it. But this retcon just... doesn't work. It feels like a step backwards, and after One More Day, not a good step.

Now look, don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest when it comes to all that 'family-values' nonsense, but you know what? If any man could balance fighting Doomsday and Darkseid while maintaining a successful home life, it's fucking Superman. I just wished DC would grow up and realize that.

Dave said...

I stopped watching this video about halfway through. It only took Bob about 30 seconds to reveal that he has absolutely no idea what the DCnU is all about, and is back to making shit up again.

For the record, Superman's marriage to Lois Lane did actually result in significant changes to the title, stories and character.

And he was actually in a relationship with Wonder Woman prior to getting married to Lois Lane. They broke it off because they really didn't have much in common and have been in the "just friends" phase since.

But Bob continually makes shit up and is not to be trusted whenever he makes videos about DC.

Moreover, most fans aren't terribly pissed over the marriage breaking up. They're pissed that DC has to do it the lazy way by pulling the "this never happened" schtick along with the rest of the selective continuity changes (some stuff is making it over, some stuff is not; it's really just one huge mess filled with contradictions left and right) instead of actually having them go through a divorce.

Got it, Bob? Fans aren't pissed off that the marriage is breaking up. They're pissed off that the writers and DC editorial are handling it in the most bland and terminally-unimaginative way possible instead of actually breaking them up using forward-moving, plot-pushing storytelling.

Don't listen to a damn word Bob says about DC. Seriously. He makes shit up left and right and it makes me sick.

Ryan said...

As a longtime fan of comics, I'm completely pleased by your Comics are Weird series, and I like your opinions and the reasoning behind them. I think it's great that you want to read about Superman as single, and that you've imagined a world in which Lois Lane is flummoxed by Superman's PTSD. That sounds like a good story.

But really...the new costumes look silly. They also look stylistically unified, which isn't a good thing because it implies that either all the Super Heroes got their costumes from the same place or they all had the same idea for designs when they independently decided to be Super Heroes. It makes them look like a bad 1980s He-Man knockoff, and that's no good.

As for Supes' marriage not creating different stories...eh. I think it did. I don't think there are any real classic stories about the marriage itself, however; weirdly, Spider-Man's marriage was actually GOOD for stories about Spider-Man, and his subsequent single-hood has just resulted in a lot of boring Peter-Parker-as-Swinging-Bachelor bullcrap. The whole fun of a superhero married to a norm is that the norm becomes a useful perspective for the reader - a way to see the fantasy world of Superheroics for the the scary, exhilerating, ridiculous place that it is. A norm spouse allows a superhero to reflect in a realistic way on their life, and the best MJ/Peter and Lois/Superman stories played that up.

The whole "you have to keep your identity secret from those that love you" angle is fundamentally flawed; it's impossible to love someone in the way that earns that "loved one" status if you don't actually know them very well.

But you know...the reality of the situation is, older comics fans really shouldn't complain about stuff like this. *I* want to read about a married Superman, because I'd identify more with a guy trying to be Superman whilst married and raising kids and doing the kind of stuff I have to do to live my life, but comics are aimed at 13-year-olds, and adolescents do not fantasize about the responsibilities of being a husband and father; Reed Richards works because he reminds people of their dad - you're supposed to identify with Ben and Johnny.

Anyway, yeah, I think the reboot is weak sauce, mostly because I don't think DC has the cojones to actually start telling the story of the DC universe from nothing, which would be the only way I could really get behind it. They're not going to be able to keep out the old continuity. In fact, I doubt they're even going to be able to get rid of the red shorts.

Dave said...

@Ryan: Don't buy into what Bob says. He doesn't really know enough about DC to do these videos so he makes loads of shit up.

Regarding the reboot, again, Bob doesn't know his shit. Nothing is going back to square 1. Everything is moving forward, save for a few titles which don't happen in the same time period as the other titles (JLA #1 starts 5 years prior to the alleged beginning of the DCU, for example, and Action Comics #1 gives a new look on Superman's Golden Age stories while GL and Batman titles take place later on). Then there's stuff that is just being written out, like it never happened. It's a selective continuity.

Also the assertion that comics are aimed at 13-year-old kids is flat-out false, especially when the majority of the readership is in their 20s, 30s and 40s. The mean age of a regular comic book reader is approximately the same as the average gamer (34 years old is what the statistic for gamers says).

I found it easy to identify with Superman during Mark Verheiden's run, during stories which largely dealt with his marriage. At the time I was single, but I was still able to connect with Superman because humanizing him and giving him relationship issues within the context of his marriage actually made him interesting and reflected very common feelings those of us who have been in relationships have all dealt with at one point or another, as well as him dealing with the consequences of his existence and the idea that people do in fact fear him, heaven forbid he lose control and use his powers against the people he vowed to protect.

So I'm sorry, but your assertion of what fans do or don't identify with is bullshit of the highest order. No matter your age or relationship status, those stories were so down-to-earth anyone could enjoy them. And, if revenue is any indicator of proof, the Superman comics haven't done nearly as well in terms of their sales after Mark left, even with Geoff Johns writing.

Now, if you want to learn a thing or two about DC Comics or the details of the "reboot," I strongly suggest you look elsewhere, as Bob is easily one of the most unreliable sources of information - or even opinion - on the topic of comics.

Ryan said...

Trolls gotta troll, I guess.

Popcorn Dave said...
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Dave said...

@Ryan: How am I being a troll? I'm merely speaking the truth. Bob makes shit up in this video. If you're going to believe him as though he's some kind of authoritative source of information, then you're an idiot.

And, furthermore, most of what you said was just wrong.

So am I being a troll? No, I'm correcting misinformation.

You're just calling me that because I'm telling you something you don't want to hear. And that makes you an idiot. Plus, I'd say that response of yours is trolling to invite an argument.

But whatever, dumbass. It's people like you and Bob who hurt this industry and pollute the fandom with your idiocy.

Goku50k said...

Not really sure but what to say to all of this but I dont really care that Superman is breaking up with Lois but what I do care about is that the Batman comics are starting over as well. I liked Dick as Batman. But what i'm really ticked about is how now, Dick is going to become a 2nd rate character again. Sure he's getting his own comic but it just feels like he's being put on the side.
Plus I cant see Bruce and Damian working together, Dick was the only one who could put up with Damian's sarcasm and saddistic tone. I cant see Bruce putting up with any of Damian's attitude. All of this feels rushed.....feels like the only two people I can trust who wont screw up Batman is Grant Morrison for comics and Christopher Nolan when it comes to the films.