Tuesday, May 08, 2012

Big Picture: "Wrongs & Rights"

One more "Avengers"-related show? Why not...


Merrick_HLC said...

If I remember correctly, neither Quicksilver nor Scarlet Witch knew they were Magneto's children until long after their first appearances.

Of course I'd still keep them separate from the Avengers franchise for the most part, don't want the roster getting TOO crowded.

Lord Slithor said...

There's a chance some of those characters could go back to Marvel in time, with a couple barring certain circumstances. I'll go in order from most likely to least likely...

The Punisher, Ghost Rider and Daredevil- None of the movies based on these characters did particularly well. And it's conceivable that the respective studios that own them would probably sooner cut their losses and give them back to Marvel, figuring they could probably do better with them.

Blade- While Blade II was considered a success, Blade: Trinity tanked. And there hasn't been anything major done with the character since the TV series a decade ago, which was pretty wretched. Since New Line is now part of Warners, and since Waners wants to focus more on developing movies based on DC's roster of characters, it would make sense for them to let Blade go and have the movie rights revert back to Marvel.

Fantastic Four- Even though there have been rumors of Fox gearing up for another go at the FF, with Chronicle director Josh Trank rumored to be tapped for directing, nothing else has been said. At this point, it's all blue sky and nothing has been set in stone. And things could fall apart fairly quickly. FF doesn't seem to be a very high priority for Fox, especially looking back on how Rise of the Silver Surfer did. So there's a chance they could let this lapse and have it go back to Marvel.

Spider-Man- Spidey could go back to Marvel if one of two things happen: either The Amazing Spider-Man tanks, or Sony sells off Sony Pictures, leaving the IP without a movie rights holder. Either could happen.

X-Men- Fox is going to hold onto this property with a death-grip, especially now with First Class star Jennifer Lawrence having blown up with The Hunger Games. Same with Hugh Jackman for as long as he's willing to play Wolverine. Fox has had a bit of a PR problem lately what with the Rupert Murdoch scandal, but that's probably not going to affect their movie division very directly. Only if the First Class or Wolverine sequels are failures could Marvel/Disney conceivably move in and try to get them back.

Phil said...

This is all very interesting, Bob. Ironic how Warner Bros owns the rights to all of one comic publishers characters and can't really get the ball rolling on any live action adaptation in the DC Universe aside from Batman and maybe Superman.

You know what's also very interesting? That there are so many characters are out there that are not white that are also heroes and famous characters from books and such that Hollywood buys the rights to yet Hollywood can't really seem to hire any nonwhites to play them.

Like how Warner Bros who owns Akira isn't interested at all in actually hiring Asian Americans to play the lead characters.

Or how Warner Bros is also preparing to film the movie adaptation of the Japanese sci-fi book All You Need Is Kill with not an Asian American but Tom Cruise.

Or how just today in fact, Warner Bros released a trailer of their movie Argo that is a about a real life American hero, of Latino descent, being played by Ben Affleck. Instead of giving a great opportunity to an American actor of Latino descent a chance in the spotlight Affleck just casted himself. Yet when there are roles needed to play sidekicks to white guys or gang bangers there is all of a sudden no need whitewash those roles.

Very interesting isn't it, Bob? But not worth mentioning I guess because after all that lily white superhero movie has not only broken box office records but it's also made movie history.

I guess unless some upcoming lighthearted and kiddy friendly Marvel movie that you are looking forward is getting bashed because of race (i.e. Thor) or you found something else to hold against some movie that you just started to dislike for whatever reason (i.e. Dark Knight Rises) such a thing isn't worth mentioning.

Besides, that all white crew over at that shit stain of a website Badass Film Digest doesn't mention stuff like this so who cares? Oh no, I'm sorry they do. Like when that one gimmick fool "HULK CRITIC" declared that the stupid Judd Apatow produced HBO Comedy isn't racist just because it takes place in Brooklyn yet all of the main characters are privileged white girls even though the grand majority of people in the borough of Brooklyn are not white. He should know best. He's a white guy that writes in big capital letters and it's really funny cause you see the Hulk can't really talk but he can so it's a contradiction that for some reason is supposed to be funny no matter how many times that dead horse gets beaten to the ground! So if this one gimmick white guy says something like that isn't racist even when you look at the big picture of how nonwhites constantly get the shaft of being lead characters in major television and movie productions then it surely must not be!

So for all of those nonwhite American that don't see themselves represented in major American movie and television productions as lead characters even when those characters have every reason to be be played by nonwhites, it isn't worth mentioning. Just sit back and enjoy the greatness of the all white superhero squad like The Avengers and know that history starts with them.

Sam said...

Got some good news, Marvel Studios already got the movie rights to Blade and The Punisher back ages ago...


Heres hoping that:
-Fantastic 4 Reboot gets cancelled
-The Amazing Spider-man tanks

Anonymous said...

Oh, Phil, there is no hard drive large enough to fit an entire video of problems with Hollywood. No reason to drag race into a discussion of intellectual property and imply Bob is a white supremacist.

Phil said...

Let me specify my motivation here "Anonymous".

If Bob doesn't give a damn about nonwhite Americans in Hollywood getting the shaft as they have been for decades and continue to be getting it with no signs of stopping then it's fine by me.

What I have a problem with is that Bob only seems to care about such issues if it somehow related to something else that he actually cares about that is white related.

Thor is such an example. He only made that Big Picture episode talking about race because of the controversy of Idris Elba's casting that was looming over Thor. Thor was a movie that he really wanted to see and really wanted to be successful because it would bring Marvel one step closer to his geek wet dream of the all white superhero squad The Avengers being made.

Same with Dark Knight Rises. He only mentioned Bane being Latino but not being played by a Latino because he just started to dislike that movie and it was just something else to dig at.

Yet many stories in Hollywood have come about that are in the same boat as those episodes and actually are far worse examples of discrimination in Hollywood yet Bob never mentions them.

Bob wants to be a responsible social commentator but that kind of behavior is contradictory to that goal. The race issue only seems to interest Bob if he is getting something out of it as a white fan. If that is the case, then he should be consistent and just not ever talk about racism in Hollywood because paying lip service is insulting.

Bazoo said...

What the heck, Phil? Bob has tackled the segregated casting issue several times throughout his shows and blost posts. Just because he didn't tackle it in *this* show does not mean he isn't mad about it, if that's what you're implying. You just simply don't have enough time to attack everything in a five-minute show.
You know what? I'm actually mad that Bob didn't discuss the any type of women's rights in this movie! Like Mrs. Incredible -needs- to be a hot Jessical Alba in order to be respected! And Wonder Woman needs to be sexually iconic with her skimpy outfit! Are you some kind of chauvinist Bob!? Huh? What is wrong with you!?

Pat said...


You are totally right about the white-washing done in Hollywood. Hell, if you want to find an actually relevant reason to attack Moviebob for tacitly supporting it, you could bring up his favorable review of "The Last Airbender", which had a pretty notoriously white-washed cast.

But in this case? I think you're just looking for a fight. I mean, this episode isn't about movie rights in general, just how movie rights pertain to the MCU directly. It's a five-minute show, not a documentary. And you keep trying to talk about the "all-white" cast of Avengers, completely leaving out the fact that the guy in charge of the whole operation is Nick Fury, who they cast as Samuel L. Jackson. The MCU movies in general have done pretty well with representing people of color. Iron Man 1 & 2 included War Machine, Thor cast Idris Elba as Heimdall, and Captain America included the Howling Commandos, which included some of the first people of color in comics history.

I'm not saying the problem you talk about isn't an awful part of Hollywood that needs to stop. I'm just saying that your attack seems misdirected and/or misplaced.

Phil said...

First of all, this isn't an attack.

Second, my response isn't misdirected nor is it thrown in "looking for a fight".

Bob felt the need to really hammer it home of how much of a great success The Avengers is. All this celebrating and feeling good of his dream come true yet Bob clearly doesn't see it from the other side. He talks about how much Marvel Studio has made the impossible possible because they made a movie about a bunch of white superheroes yet at the very same time are movies about nonwhites that Hollywood just doesn't can't seem to make with nonwhites as the leads.

Think about it: Hollywood is willing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in a multi film project about white superhero films. Yet making a movie that has nonwhite heroes and even real life nonwhite heroes in a country that is close to 40% not white seems to be for Hollywood as impossible as curing AIDS and cancer at the same time.

Bob has talked so much at length about this movie so many times yet like I have pointed out Bob only talks about racism in Hollywood when the aforementioned dream seems to be in danger.

It's something I have noticed in the so called geek culture. It really just is "white geek culture" with that community in general just not giving a damn about nonwhites and any discussion of the issue is just light and shallow. Nonwhites should just sit there and like it and stop complaining. The problem will be "solved" when someone gets bored and feels like it I suppose.

In regards to The Avengers' history making moment we should know that even if there was a multi film project with a mostly nonwhite superhero team we must remember the all white superhero squad The Avengers did it first. Similarly when they get to making a sequel and short change Black Panther into nothing more than a sidekick or just a plain token character in what will most likely be pointed out to be inferior to the first film.

And Pat, let me correct you on some things:

- Nick Fury is not part of the Avengers. He is SHIELD. The movie is not called "SHIELD" it's called "The Avengers".

- The MCU movies are NOT progressive in any way. You missed the very point I was making in both of my previous replies here. I am talking about LEAD CHARACTERS. Not sidekicks (i.e. War Machine), supporting characters (i.e. Idris Elba in Thor) and forgettable background players (i.e. the black and Asian guy in Captain America).

- I did mention his curious The Last Airbender review in a previous reply I made elsewhere.

Angry Man said...

Thanks for putting this episode together. I was just talking about these things with a co-worker and now I can send him this link because it's a nice clear breakdown.

@Phil - I take issue with a lot of Bob's words/actions lately, but you clearly just have an agenda to push. Yeah, Hollywood is still pretty racist. I think everyone kind of knows that already.
Btw, as far as I can tell, Bob hates on Nolan's Batman series solely because he thinks they made all the characters costumes terrible (which is a stupid reason if you ask me, but I'm not a big comic book fan, I guess).

MovieBob said...


1.)I agree with you that "The Avengers" and Hollywood superhero movies in generally are sorely lacking in diversity and this needs to change - when Marvel sits down to figure out which characters should next get movies and/or join the team, IMO the first item on their list of criteria should be getting some characters and/or actors of color into their universe. Nick Fury effectively being the boss of The Avengers is nice, it'll be cool to see Luke Cage realized on the Jessica Jones TV show (supposedly Cloak & Dagger are getting one too) but that's not enough. Frankly, I DO think they should even consider "color-blind" casting some of the bigger characters if necessary - I see no practical reason why figures like Dr. Strange, Ant-Man etc can't be played by nonwhite actors if Marvel doesn't want to "bet" on niche characters like Falcon, for example.

2.) The idea that I haven't been "on top" of this issue is, frankly, ridiculous on it's face. I really have nothing more to add than that.

Soonertroll said...

2 questions Bob.

What are the chances of Fox and Disney making Avengers vs X-Men together.

If it was made would the production & advertising costs top $600 million. If so do you think it would still be profitable.

Pyrian said...

...Nick Fury, assembler of the Avengers with possibly the most screentime of any single character in the movie, is not a "LEAD CHARACTER"? Someone's throwing stones from his glass house, here.

Paul said...

Marvel Studios/Disney also for sure own the movie rights to Namor the Submariner. Only Ghost Rider, The X-Men, FF, Spidey, DD are outstanding and after GR just flopped I'd not be suprised to see him go back to Marvel next.

Phil said...

Nick Fury has "possibly the most screeentime of any single character in the movie"? Really Pyrian?

I did a quick search and here is a headline regarding Joss Whedon's comments about the film he wrote and directed:

"The Avengers’ told from the perspective of Captain America, Joss Whedon says"

Here is the link to it: http://www.inquisitr.com/181266/the-avengers-told-from-the-perspective-of-captain-america-joss-whedon-says/

Drgon said...

..... I want to see another DareDevil movie

preferably without Ben Affleck, but yeah. DD is my favorite hero, and the first movie wasn't that bad to me

Anonymous said...

Phil, you are ridiculous. They freaking changed Nick Fury into a black guy. Do you want them to change Captain America into a black guy too, just to appease the racists? There is nothing wrong about having an all-white superhero team.

Sylocat said...


Just answer me one question: What specifically do you find insufficient about the litany of other videos and articles Bob has done on the very topic you bring up?

Oh wait, is that you, James?

Reader said...

It's a sad sad day when Bob is getting called a racist. Makes me laugh and cry at the same time. I mean I remember a specific Big Picture episode (There haven't been THAT many to date you know...)

I had the audacity to say he was blowing the race problem out of proportion. Clearly I had it wrong... I never figured him for a white-supremacist.

You know what I regret? That people still exist who are offended by an all-white cast. No matter how you paint the house it's just as racist as someone being offended by an all Latino cast.

I never once while sitting through the Avengers thought, "You know what this team of super-bad-asses is missing a token asian guy." And that is a GOOD thing. Even thinking back on it now, the only real lack of racial depth was when it came to the role of, "Misc. Civilian gazing out store window at chaos" Thinking back on it none of those people were black.

Not sure what's worse, the racists or the people calling everything and everyone racist?

T4_was_here said...

And thats is why I wont pay a single cent to any non-Marvle Studios Marvle movie.
Dont care how many good movies I have to throw under the bus, I want Logan and Cap teaming up in a flashback and hear Tony and Peter banter.
To bad/lucky if feel like Im the only one who sees it this way...

Crafty Andy said...

Part of me wonders the reason WB sucks at adapting their own comic characters is that they don't seem to think ANY of the stories can translate to film and that the common movie goer won't be able to use their imagination like if they had Superman vs. Doomsday or Darkside and his line of characters.
It's like they are still in the mode of "it's based on a comic book, it will sell, no one reads them anyways so we can do what we want with them." And that's how you get Catwoman.

Megabyte said...

So, is TopCow working with anyone? Might be fun to see the Darkness and Angelus get some big screen time if they can pull it off right.

Anonymous said...

I can't be the only one who realized that Chris Evans plays both captain america and the human torch, so if they were to ever pair up, what the hell would happen there.

DamageIncM said...

Way to show a picture from 'Hulk' when saying 'The Incredible Hulk'. :P

And 'Hulk' was better than 'The Incredible Hulk', even if it didn't make "enough" money or less than the second.
All the second one had going for it was the fact that it was made after 'Iron Man', as part of the path to 'The Avengers', and also had bigger names on it, such as Edward Norton, who made the worst Bruce Banner of all.
Besides that, it doesn't match up with anything of the other movies, except that it had this segment (at the very end) that connected it to "the Avengers-initiative".
Which probably half of the audience didn't see because everyone runs off once the credits start to roll, and it was shown AFTER the credits (right?).

Sure, 'Hulk' just came out of nowhere as a standalone, but like I said, if 'The Incredible Hulk' was a standalone, as in not part of the leading up to 'The Avengers', it would have even less going for it, it wouldn't be very interesting.
And in the end 'Hulk' was a much better story to tie in with the other movies.
Visually as well, it had ILM for the visual effects which made it look very similar to 'Iron Man'.
And it makes no sense that they DID get ILM for 'Iron Man', NOT for 'The Incredible Hulk', but they DID for 'The Avengers', which has the Hulk done RIGHT (both design and effects this time), with a GREAT portrayal of Bruce Banner included.
But anyway, what was the use of 'The Incredible Hulk'??
And all that nonsense with "the Abomination". What the heck was that crap?
I could say the same of the Hulk-dogs and all that in 'Hulk', that was kind of silly as well, but there was still better story to back it, while 'The Incredible Hulk' was laid out for nothing but spectacle...
And that ESPECIALLY doesn't work when you have bad CGI.

And now we get 'The Amazing Spider-Man'. Which reeks of 'The Incredible Hulk' if you ask me.
Also unnecessary, as said in this video, and it doesn't even look good.
If they were smart, they would've teamed up with Marvel, who SHOULD own the movie-rights to Spider-Man anyway, and have produced a proper Spider-Man-reboot and then indeed have him show up with the Avengers later on.
This way, everyone's making money... Well, except for us, we'll throw money at them for it to eat their shit.
And actually, is they were REALLY smart, they shouldn't have let Sam Raimi walk, cause they would've made LOADS more money with another THREE GOOD Spider-Man-movies, which I was really REALLY wanting.
I wasn't wanting this "Amazing Spider-Man"-junk to be honest, and I'm not going to see it at the theater...

And by the way, this Bob-person talking reminds me of Jon Favreau talking in a way...