Tuesday, August 07, 2012

The Big Picture: "Holy Spoilers, Batman!"

Here's another show about TDKR, spoiler-warning kind of implicit in the title...


Pat said...

It's pronounced "Raysh", not "Raws".

Anonymous said...

I dont really see a problem with this, in fact I would say that the first two movies "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" have comic book elements in them as well they are just not as apparent. And while yes Bane might be boring or not as interesting in the comics in "the Dark Knight rises" he is very interesting and in some ways frightening. It is isnt until the last 30 minutes of the film that he becomes boring or more of a man-child then anything else. Now on to the Robin thing, that was going to happen, Nolan wasnt going to call him Tim Drake or Jason Todd or even Dick Grayson because if he did it would create to many fixed ideas when it came to the ending. By giving him the name Robin and having the film end the way it did it leaves it open for tons of possibilities. I would easily give this film a 10/10. yes it has its flaws but to me there was more good in this film then bad.

Sam Robards, Comic Fan said...

This movie was just ok. 6/10, if I had to put a number on it.

Considering how the other two Nolan bat-films wanted to get away from comic book minutiae, this one seemed to just slap it in there for the heck of it, making this film feel like a hodgepodge of references with no heart of its own.

Heck, Rises even seemed to swipe the concept of weaponized sources of clean energy from Iron Man.

If you ask me, I think Grant Morrison's Batman, Inc. concept would've worked wonderfully as an ending to this trilogy.

For those unfamiliar with it, Bruce publicly comes out and says he funds Batman's activities (he doesn't say he is Batman, just that he's funding him) and creates an international coalition of costumed vigilantes, which he personally selects and trains, under the name Batman, Incorporated.

Nolan could have easily taken that concept, kept it centralized in Gotham and integrated the costumed vigilantes that appeared briefly in The Dark Knight to create a legacy that didn't feel cheap and tacked on like the "Robin" bit did.

But that's just me.

Anonymous said...

Bob...I really don't get this whole notion of Nolan disregarding and disrespecting comic books and the Batman source material. He wanted to imagine what'd the world would look like in ours but he did stay true to the material. Batman was still Batman. Joker was Joker. The weapons were there. Gordon was there. They were SO true to the characters, even if the reason they looked they way they did was more realistic (Make-Up, Armor suit ect.)

As a fan of The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Year One, and the other films the Nolan trilogy clearly took inspiration from , I felt he gave me The Batman films I've always wanted. Ok, maybe they're aren't YOUR taste due to the dark and gritty nature of them, but tough tits. "I don't like this particular take on Batman" is different than "This is barely a Batman film!"

I love these films, found them very faithful to what I had been wanting, and even though TDKR is far from perfect, I found myself enjoying it more and more with each viewing.

I hope all superhero aspire to this more than The Avengers. The Avengers was a paint by numbers story saved by great dialogue and actors who could deliver. I'm not talking "realism" vs. "fantasy", that depends on the character. I'm talking story, scope, and character exploration.

Why do people think the Robin reveal was supposed to be a joke? I mean it's tacked on their for sure and feels like bad fan service, but I didn't think it was meant for laughs.

JPArbiter said...

and now we get to the point of Talia being the thing in the movie that pissed me off. Having Talia be the avenging angel of her father ruined the entire movie for me because her character is exactly as Bob outlined.

her being torn between her father and the man she loves (genuinely loves too) is what makes her interesting, and Nolan turned her, into this bitch that considers the fact that the man she wants to kill gave her an orgasm is merely humorous. there is next to nothing of the Talia I know and love in that movie, and it turned a 8/10 into a 0/10 on a dime.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 2:43pm

I don't think when people say its a "joke" they mean a funny humorous way, but more of being insincere and along the line of "This guy is a joke", for the reasons you mentioned.

Joe said...

The first movie had a secret society of ninjas capable of ravaging a major American city and magic fear gas, who could only be stopped by a billionaire in a bat suit with military technology the federal government apparently couldn't track despite coming from one of their biggest suppliers.

The second movie had a guy in a clown outfit ravage a major American city, plus see above.

They were definitely comic book movies, even if they were closer in tone to early 90s Wildstorm than Silver Age DC.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the 'Robin' response. I was like "um...why?" But like any threequel it has to give waay too much fan service (I'm starting to believe us fans ruin our own movies).

Though, any comment about this film being more comic booky is void the moment you take in the fact you've watched a fantasy film about a billionaire who dresses like a Bat. The trilogy was grounded in a sense of realism, not OUR reality.

Brick said...

Again with the "Nolan hates" comic books thing. Where are you getting this from? Just because he did a more somewhat realistic take on Batman that means he hates comic books, even though he's said in interviews that he grew up watching the Batman TV show with Adam West, and having a toy Batmobile and such. Unless you can point to an interview where Nolan had specifically said, "I hate comic books" or something similar, this whole notion of him "holding them in such condescending contempt" is ludicrous. I even remember before the movie came out, and we got news that Hathaway would play Catwoman that you wouldn't be surprised if she never appeared in the Catsuit, I mean come on you really thought Nolan would go that far?! Just because Marvel and their movies now are fully embracing the "Comics Are Weird" aesthetics doesn't mean Nolan hates comics because his movies aren't (which wouldn't be fair to judge on since Batman Begins came out years before any of this, and that was actually more comic-booky, whereas TDK wasn't as much just because the villain isn't quite on the same scale as a group of killer ninja and an immortal terrorist leader; Joker is a much more personal and intimate character to Batman so the movie reflected that, so I see TDKR returning more to the style of Batman Begins). Just because he doesn't add in some of more fantastical stuff that I'm sure you like and would want, doesn't mean Nolan hates comics. I don't want to sound like I'm a raging Nolan fanboy, standing guard to protect him from any criticism, but again, it's a pretty baseless accusation.

I loved Nolan/Goyer and team's approach to this mythos, but I realize that it was somewhat limited in what they could do, and who they could introduce (like Clayface, Mr. Freeze, or an actual immortal Lazarus Pit using Ra's for example), so I am eager for WB's reboot so that they can introduce more of that stuff. Honestly Bob, just stop it with this whole thing, I mean you really think Nolan is looking down at these comics thinking to himself, "Pfft what childish nonsense"? Everyone just has their own tastes with Batman since throughout the years he's had so many different interpretations. It would be like saying that someone who prefers the style of the Adam West show hates more violent, darker stories, and everything should be lighthearted and friendly. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

Sanunes said...


That seems to be true with anything that is a sequel for the "fans" will say that something will need to be included in the next movie/game/etc and when its not done they way they envisioned there seems to be backlash.

motyr said...

Hey Bob, great episode!

I'd just like to direct you to these two links, though. The first two Nolan Batman movies are full of references as well:



Andrew said...

Y you no mention the Killer Croc shout out? That was my favorite *wink wink* moment in the move but only got a few chuckles in the theater I attended.

Aiddon said...

Bob, get the fuck over Nolan taking a more grounded approach to superhero films. He does not hate comic books; that's a gutless and cowardly accusation to make especially considering how many goddamned references he makes to various series in the script (he makes a KINGDOM COME reference for crying out loud). He obviously respects them, but he also knows that they don't take the piss out of themselves as much as they should. This is actually the BIGGEST problem with the Marvel films as of late: they're TOO reverent of their source material and come off as pandering more than challenging.

ABTC said...

nice stuff